"Future of HR" dialogue series 
– A conversation with Astrid Neben,
CHRO of Lufthansa Airlines

By Tom Gellrich and Fabian Huhle

Lufthansa experienced a challenging few years during the pandemic. Sometimes they had just ramped up flight operations only to have to shut them down again within a matter of days. Clearly, this meant that HR had to manage both the downsizing and renewed upsizing of the workforce in quick succession. For Astrid Neben, CHRO of Lufthansa Airlines, working in crisis mode had a lasting positive impact on her team, with the experience engendering a new strength and a new sense of confidence. We spoke with her about differentiated crisis communications for specific target groups, about the boon of artificial intelligence, and about the new role that Human Resources has carved out for itself.

Fabian Huhle: The years affected by the Covid-19 pandemic from 2020 onwards were characterized by extreme changes in personnel demand, requiring the workforce to be downsized, upsized and reorganized. That must have been a tough task. How did Lufthansa manage it?

Astrid Neben: We already reached the first agreement for about 18,000 employees in March 2020. It was with the largest body of staff, our cabin crew. The fact that we so quickly managed to reach an agreement to reduce capacity to a relevant extent without going straight into a redundancy program was really a great success and a huge relief. Our company's "social partners" had a great deal of understanding for the urgency of the situation we found ourselves in, and they were therefore very willing to work with us. Within a short time, we'd achieved the same for the other employee groups, pretty much one a week. That was a very important message to send to the workforce, because by implementing short-time working we were able to avoid job losses for the time being, and that gave us the chance to consider what else we had to do. Besides that, in a company the size of ours the ability to flex the workforce, for instance by engaging temps, is a very relevant aspect. After taking these first successful steps, the next thing was to further reduce staffing costs in the medium term. To do that, we evaluated each individual post and adjusted our capacity with the help of a targeting program and a voluntary redundancy program.

Tom Gellrich: In 2019, the year before Covid hit, everything at Lufthansa had been geared towards growth – how did the sudden reversal feel for you? And what impact did it have on HR?

Astrid Neben: We were indeed coming out of a phase of heavy recruitment. In 2019, we were still recruiting on a large scale because HR at Lufthansa in Germany was geared towards growth despite initial signs of a softening in the market. We had professionalized our processes and made them more efficient so that our time to hire would be fast. When we entered crisis mode we basically had to turn our recruiters into new placement advisors. Putting short-time working into practice was something many of our HR people were doing for the very first time, as was the task of implementing a voluntary redundancy program. We set up task forces to answer the most important questions, like: How does the process work? Under what conditions can suitable measures be implemented and what do we need to take into account? As a result, we turned our own resources to new HR tasks and we repositioned the HR function. It was more a question of quickly building up these newly required skills and managing short-time working and the voluntary redundancy program. That went very well.

Fabian Huhle: How did you manage this change in mindset – a 180-degree turnaround for your HR people? How did you support them during this time? For a seasoned HR professional, this would have felt like a significant change in identity.

Astrid Neben: For our HR professionals, the radical nature of the change was indeed a shock. At the beginning, they had many questions: What are we actually doing now? What value are we adding now? The whole HR machinery came to a standstill virtually overnight, and I'm not just talking about recruitment but the standard HR processes as well. At the same time, we were faced with extreme challenges around reducing capacity and coping with the new health regulations. The main challenge was to maintain operations – because flight operations continued at all times, albeit to varying degrees. HR had a key role to play in that, and it was crucial that we as an HR function, together with the Medical Service, were able to give sound advice, assess risks and role-model good governance. The high visibility and the need for leadership gave HR an incredible sense of purpose. And the HR team tackled these new topics with great determination. Any emotional reaction was kept in check – the team understood how urgently their support was needed. Everyone recognized the importance of their own contribution when it came to overcoming the crisis.

Fabian Huhle: What about internal communications at that time? Did you use new communication channels and who was communicating internally?

Astrid Neben: Fast, precise and situational communication was certainly crucial. Suddenly we had to communicate and provide information several times a week, on questions like: What rules apply now? What does that mean? Is business travel allowed? Which countries are you allowed to travel to? What applies in which country? Although we operate flights internationally, each country had its own rules during the pandemic. As an HR function, the challenge of providing information and communicating on many levels was a significant one. Communications from us as Human Resources had always been important, but now we had to make direct and binding statements at short intervals on a wide range of topics. And communicating for different target groups came more to the fore. Previously, our HR communications had focused mainly on management. Now we had to communicate much more broadly.

Tom Gellrich: Another very important factor in times of fundamental change like that is the element of staff representation. How did you involve the company's codetermination committees?

Astrid Neben: Working with our social partners was very important throughout the whole pandemic, and industrial relations were really very constructive with all employee groups. Great efforts were made to fully understand the situation and to find good solutions that were suitable and provided the necessary protection for our employees. Of course, there were also areas where opinions differed, such as the issue of collecting data/vaccination data, which was a point of conflict not only in society but also within our company. It was very challenging to strike a balance between not wanting to interfere too deeply but still being able to fulfill our business purpose.

Fabian Huhle: What role did tools and digital solutions play in the transformation ?

Astrid Neben: A big one. Here's a very good example: When our employees want to enter our business premises, they can only do so with their ID card, which also has certain authorization data stored on it because it is a secure site. During the pandemic, the rule was that everyone had to show a vaccination certificate when entering the premises. And checking it was time consuming. We then had the idea of integrating this vaccination check directly into the ID card system, and we managed to implement that very quickly. Another example concerns the processing of information such as short-time working lists and works council inquiries. Until then, that had mainly been done manually. There was only a rough outline of a workflow. Making it digital minimized sources of error and saved time.

Fabian Huhle: What flanking measures did you as HR offer during this time of crisis, a time that changed so much in so many ways?

Astrid Neben: A lot of employees were asking themselves some quite fundamental questions: Should I stay with Lufthansa despite all the uncertainty? When will things really pick up again? When will we return to growth as a company? Nobody could predict the answers at the time. To help people deal with this uncertainty, we organized a wide range of support and various talks, partly with the help of external partners. We went straight to the different employee groups and asked them: How do you see things continuing? What do you believe in? We also had a wide range of different experiences around working from home, and we learned from that. The sense of loneliness and isolation at home was a real problem. To counteract it, we put extensive arrangements in place, like many other companies did, to make sure that people kept up their social contact and didn't lose their bond with the company. These included daily check-ins and virtual get-togethers for coffee on Friday afternoons. And there were regular voluntary video meetings for operational staff like pilots and flight attendants who were on short-time working.

Tom Gellrich: Did you find that the commitment had been worth it when it was time to ramp up again?

Astrid Neben: Yes, definitely. But even so, when we started to ramp up again, we noticed that despite all our efforts, there were around 10 to 15 percent of the workforce who had moved away from the company and had maybe found a second job with another company. And all of a sudden Lufthansa was calling again! So there were some conflicting loyalties. It wasn't easy for the cabin crew especially – who didn't have a place in an office due to the nature of their jobs, mainly in the aircraft cabins – because there had been little to hang on to. They'd lost what it was that made them identify with Lufthansa as an employer.

Tom Gellrich: What support measures did you and your HR team put in place?

Astrid Neben: We put on a lot of events to build bridges again, such as a "welcome back" for pilots. It was helpful that many of their qualifications had to be renewed as well. This renewed onboarding offered a good way of bridging it, a way to get used to processes again, to foster personal contacts and thus to offer a home again. But it wasn't something we could take for granted. There were certain "ramp-up pains" in all employee groups. It was definitely easier for those who worked in an office, at a desk or in a hangar because they were able to meet their team again and had managers on site as people they could go to. Communication got going quickly there. We gave the managers video call training in advance so they could create a cohesive atmosphere. And we started to make the various work sites more attractive again. For example, we installed coffee bars and coffee points and introduced coffee afternoons where we offered snacks and cakes. In short, a great deal of creativity was unleashed and we also provided a great deal of freedom.

Fabian Huhle: What does the future hold? Do you expect to return to the pre-pandemic status quo?

Astrid Neben: After the end of the Covid-19 pandemic, the classic impulse to bring everyone back from home and from the virtual workspaces came from the C-suite of many companies. For us as HR, it was important to follow the principle that every team has to find its own way. It was obvious to us that imposing a blanket obligation on people who had previously spent months establishing work-from-home structures to now be in the office or on site at least four days a week was not going to be a viable option. In the end, you need a good balance. It was a really difficult task for HR to strike this balance and not to overstep the mark – either in one direction or the other. As HR, we moderated between extremes and helped to find this balance. We focused on a moderate HR policy and were prepared to accept the uncertainty of not knowing a hundred percent what was right.

Fabian Huhle: Let's take a look at resilience in this context. One definition of resilience is based on the metaphor of the reed that bends before the wind but then stands upright again. Speaking in the abstract, what would you pass on to other companies about what you learned from your experience of resilience in this crisis? What parts of it can you transfer to the way you work as an HR professional and the way you act as a company?

Astrid Neben: First of all, in a crisis you need to act fast and with clarity, and you need to provide a great deal of guidance in order to create a sense of calm and security. Figuratively speaking, the reed must be able to bend under the pressure. Then you need to do whatever it takes to make sure it can stand upright again. But the reed will very likely be tilted in a somewhat different direction. It was clear to everyone that things would not be exactly the same as they had been before the pandemic. It's all about finding the right tilt, and having the attention and the willingness to watch what happens and to see what is truly needed before making any decisions. Quick and clear commands from the bridge are not what's required at this point – unlike in the acute stage of a crisis. And yet the drive to move forward must be there in a joint team. When making decisions, it's definitely better to think across a spectrum of possibilities rather than just trying to decide what is right and what is wrong. That is the biggest lesson I learned, and it is also what I would advise our managers.

Tom Gellrich: What does this mean for the demands on HR people and the skills they need, especially in light of the shortage of skilled workforce? How is your view of the tasks and roles of HR professionals changing?

Astrid Neben: For my HR people, it means above all that we need to be able to cope with conflicting priorities and also offer advice around them. We have to be able to get the managers, the employees and the social partners to come with us as we progress through the process. We must not check off topics too quickly – we must have the courage to leave matters unresolved for a while, when necessary, and to look for rules that provide room for maneuver. This includes watching how things evolve and allowing for variations in final decisions. HR professionals need to develop and expand these skills so that they can also advise other stakeholders in that direction. The common reflex after the crisis was, and still is, to want to make clear decisions fast. For many issues, that is the wrong approach, and it is not a successful model anymore. To make good decisions, we need different perspectives on problems in order to do justice to the true complexity of reality. This is a cultural shift towards the collective. And it is in stark contrast to what actually got us through the crisis.

Fabian Huhle: Can artificial intelligence (AI) help with this? In other words, are you already using AI in any form, and is AI a topic you are dealing with?

Astrid Neben: It is of course an important topic for us. AI can help us operate more efficiently, especially wherever rules and processes are involved. We will be utilizing the new possibilities of technology in recruitment, for example to screen job applications, as well as in our HR work for things like staff requests. We also think there is great potential in creating ways of communicating digitally and ways of giving employees information using chatbots. The bottom line is that we will see a reduction in workload when it comes to simple activities in the first instance. I don't expect AI to be of significant help with more complex strategic issues just yet.

Fabian Huhle: But you're still pushing AI as a topic?

Astrid Neben: During this shortage of skilled workforce, anything that takes routine tasks off the shoulders of my HR staff is welcome – as long as the quality is right. We hope to see further progress in AI so that we as HR can spend even more time on our role as advisors, and can also tackle the medium- and long-term issues that come with workforce transformation and digitalization. These are issues that affect our entire company, such as customer touchpoints, expectations of our service products and the configuration of optimized processes as an airline.

Tom Gellrich: And that will also change the work of the HR department.

Astrid Neben: Yes, job profiles and requirements will continue to change radically in all of our areas. As an HR department, we want to take on the central role of an enabler. We will be enabling upskilling, reskilling and establishing, new apprenticeships and new study programs. In 2022 and 2023, we were working to ensure stability in the HR system and in the company as a whole. As an HR organization, we are now growing into the role of providing answers to strategic questions and supporting the whole workforce accordingly. Even more than before, HR is becoming an advisor for the future.

Tom Gellrich: Do you think that the successful role HR played during the pandemic crisis has perhaps meant it has earned a completely different mandate or a new credibility within the company?

Astrid Neben: Yes, definitely. The confidence of the HR community has been noticeably strengthened. It was a special experience to be asked to contribute to the company's survival during the pandemic and to help lead it out of the crisis. Working in tandem with the operational departments, we were able to achieve some really great successes.

Fabian Huhle: Looking at the further evolution of the HR function, hopefully it won't take another crisis to move forward like this again. If you look at the HR ecosystem at Lufthansa Airline now, and at other companies too, what kind of evolution would you want to see or expect to see?

Astrid Neben: In my view, the HR function will only be able to retain this visible role and level of recognition if we actually engage more with the latest trends and whatever comes next in terms of topics – without being afraid of them. We must not be too preoccupied with our day-to-day business – we must also get to a point where we have the courage and the competency to evaluate the latest work trends in our operational departments and to adopt a position on them. We need to grow more into advisory roles, which requires us to have the confidence to make our own assessments of business developments. That means not only asking the right questions as advisors, but also having an opinion on how things could be done in the future, what impact certain social dynamics and social trends will have, and what this means in concrete terms for the operational departments going forward. We need to be involved in proactively developing smart programs and smart measures to support a transformation that is definitely coming.

Tom Gellrich: How do you "institutionalize" this kind of economic and sociopolitical knowledge in an HR department? Is there a think tank or an in-house SWOT team to take on this task or are there lots of training courses?

Astrid Neben: We are starting with a low bar and a pragmatic approach. All of my managers are tasked with regularly attending conferences – to learn from others and to share ideas. But it's also to make them less afraid of the big topics and trends. They can see how others are doing it and they get a feel for how they can approach that thing. I'm also a great believer in the "each one, teach one" approach – by that I mean motivating people with an interest in a specific topic to educate us and stimulate ideas around the topic. When it comes to the confidence and effectiveness of my community, I believe it's important to do as much as we can from within and to focus on upskilling ourselves. Our big HR summit at the International Institute for Management Development (IMD) in Lausanne at the beginning of the year was geared towards that. We were there with 120 HR professionals in order to get as much input as possible from outside, which also helps everyone transfer the knowledge into their own role.

Fabian Huhle: What were the main topics you focused on there?

Astrid Neben: In Lausanne, part of the focus was on AI, and there was a good mix of General AI introductory topics and the practical application of AI in HR. We were all thrilled with how it went and we are thinking about how we can share our new insights within the wider HR community and how we can put what we learned in Lausanne into practice.

Tom Gellrich: That's a lot of momentum you're taking forward there.

Astrid Neben: My teams are very motivated and they really enjoy their personal and professional development. That's not just something I see with the colleagues in more strategic roles in the team. I have a lot of HR administrators who are really proud of their responsibility for their own processes and who are keen to make real progress in whichever area they are accountable for. And that includes digitalizing processes. For me, what that shows is that when you give people responsibility, they can do things they never thought they were capable of.

Tom Gellrich & Fabian Huhle: Astrid Neben, thank you for talking to us.